Topic #1. Introductions
(Showing 22-36 of 40)

22. Comment of Postings thus far
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 11:51 AM/EST
maxwell

I have been paying attention so far, and it seems that there have been many experiences. To capsulize what I have learned is that those who come from a non-American heritage found it shocking (for the most part), at the issues of racism. Those with an American have had there lives touched or influenced in some way. It seems that the subject is pretty big to grasp, and has been for years. Most just accept it, giving up trying to understand it. Some through education, or class structure, are able to insulate themselves somewhat but never fully from it's effects. I thank everyone for putting there experiences in such a way as to give me more insight, instead of blaming. A few other things I find intersting is: 1) Where did we learn it as children. 2) Why do those that identify themselves other than American have a different experience? 3) What day to day factors continue to perpetuate this disease of the mind?

23. to maxwell
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 12:54 PM/EST
antonia

Maxwell, in my travels I've also found foreign countries are far less focused on black/white racial attitudes than America is. I think the main reason is they aren't isolated from the rest of the world like we are. Differences in language, culture, appearance, etc., are an everyday part of European consciousness for instance, perhaps because their countries are the size of our states. They are more used to the idea that difference doesn't automatically translate to inferiority or superiority. Most European countries do have racist attitudes towards members of their former colonies, though -- if usually less severe ones. Still, I personally found Paris or Frankfurt more accepting than the American city where I was born. But I've noted changes in recent years. Through news, TV and movies, I believe America is exporting its racist attitudes to countries which didn't have them before in those terms.

Need others' attitudes rain on your parade? I say no. I believe intolerance is always based on fear. In person-to-person contact we can dispense that fear. And in adulthood, we don't have to deal with fearful people unless we choose to. The world is full of more love than hate, I've found. There is ample room to choose happiness.

24. To: Antonia
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 1:29 PM/EST
maxwell

Thank you for your insignts Antonia. Although I do not adhere to the "grass being greener on the other side", I have heard stories aobut how the problem of racism is different in Europe. As much as I would like to visit other countries (and will), I think that you point out the fact on how negative it has become in the United States. I agree with you about Fear and Isolation from others playing a part. To pinpoint an actual cause though, is that I think that the United States being a very young country, with a well recorded history of painful exclusion of human rights to many people has much to do with racism in America. I am not stating this to place blame, but to give one cause into how people react to one another. In general, I don't believe that a person can exist fully into they know some truths about their own cultural history. People from Russia, Japan, Africa, and Brazil seem to more readily acknowledge the good and bad points in their history. This gives them a point of Culture to show where they have digressed, or grown as a people. The U.S. does not do this. Our history is temporary pop culture to blind us from what I believe is the pain of recognizing where we as a poeple come from. And since we deny more than recognize, we haven't shown that we are ready to accept and understand our place as a country.

25. Racism in other countries
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 1:36 PM/EST

Maxwell & Antonia,

I have also traveled throughout the world & I work for a British Company. I find that the Brits harbor even more racism than do Americans. The big difference in most European countries is that, until recently, the balance between the native born and the darker skinned immigrant was definitely tipped in the direction of the European. Just look at France - once thought by Black Americans as a haven against racism - now that it faces massive immigration from Northern Africa, fascism and racism are becoming part of the national dialogue (and national politics).

I met several West Indians in London, and their complaints were similar to those of African-Americans, it is not the overt racism that gets you - its the priviledge of skin color that is perpetuated in all of these societies.

I just don't want to let the world off the hook - in many ways Americans are MORE tolerant of differences (what other country in the world has as many ethnic, racial, religious, political groups living in relative peace as we have here?). The rest of the world appears tolerant because they are, for the most part, living in very homogeneous countries.

26. Introductions
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 1:51 PM/EST
monte_6

I would like to welcome everyone to this exciting venture. I think that it has been a long time coming for such a forum to discuss such a topic. I for one am very glad that all of you have decided to participate and look forward to our discussions.

I agree with so many of you who have said that relationships should not just be about love, but the interactions that do or do not bring on that emotion.

I too have been involved in interracial and intercultural relationships and I have seen and heard many interesting things from family, friends and the like. I think that the gap can be bridged but I am not certain how or when that will happen. I believe that it is a matter of choice and a matter of character. Choice because we all have to decide what it is that we want from our relationships and what we will and will not do to achieve that end. Character, because once that decision is made it is our character that will carry us through the many bumps, bruises, and skinned knees that we will endure along the way.

I have heard a number of comments and I have seen a number of relationships. I look forward to sharing my experiences with you and listening to yours.

27. Introduction
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 3:17 PM/EST
madre2

Saludos a todos. Yes, I'm Hispanic/Latina. My family can trace its roots back to Spanish colonial New Mexico on both sides. I call myself Mexican-American to simplify things. The U.S. Southwest was once part of the region now known as Mexico. But many Hispanics in the Southwest have been in what is today U.S. territory for many generations. The dynamics that shape me and people like me are much different from those that shape Latinos/Hispanics who just arrived or have only been in the U.S. for a few generations. Still, there are many commonalities and I consider all Hispanics/Latinos -- whereever they are and whatever color they are -- part of my "cultural" family. I am 41 and married to a wonderful Irish-American man. We have a toddler son. My 19-year-old daughter's father is Venezuelan. We divorced when my daughter was 8. I agree with Michael. Sometimes people of color have to leave the United States to feel they are part of the greater human family. I lived in Venezuela for 10 years and everyone treated me with dignity and respect, including the expatriot Europeans I met. Oddly enough, I never felt more "American" and bonded with my own expatriot American friends. We had more in common than not. I want my children -- my beautiful brown daughter and her blue-eyed brother -- to be able to live life to the fullest without being judged by their looks. I hope this group can touch on ways of helping "biracial" (whatever that means) children see themselves in a positive light.

28. to stevie
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 3:46 PM/EST
chrissy

Thanks for the wise words of encouragement. "A place of refuge, solace, strength and love," that is really what any relationship should be about, not just interracial/cultural ones.

When two people exude that and practice it in their homes, their children will find a way eventually. Though my way was not easy, it did happen for me and the foundations my parents established; showing love, teaching respect, etc. were vital. Without them I would have been lost for a long while - maybe forever.

29. To Centrist
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 4:01 PM/EST

What I hear you saying is that having a similar socioeconomic status does not help to alleviate racism, and a black person being a professional does not make him/her immune from prejudice or discrimination.

That's a helpful insight, and you're right that in Cicely's argument with Carlton, if they were from the same se class, that, in itself, would not have been enough to bridge the gap between their points of view.

Also, perhaps (if this is what you're saying) some of the resentment Carlton and other African American students felt toward Cicily was that they perceived her movement between racial groups as an "escape" that therefore "condemns" the Black community.

I guess I was thinking, that in my experience, I tend to be more relaxed, at least when I first meet someone, if I can relate to them over something, and sometimes that is education or other similar experiences that have to do with class.

30. Europe
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 4:04 PM/EST

Thank you for pointing that out so eloquently, concernedmom. I was thinking that Europe's homogeneity was the root of the apparent equality, but I didn't understand all the complexities.

31. Introduction
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 5:21 PM/EST
marj

I am a 32 year-old BW. My husband is 32 and white. We met at college and have been married for 10 years. We have two children. I was adopted as an infant by my "white" parents. It's always strange to state that because their color is rarely a thought for me. It was however a thought to many people in the basically all white, Indiana community I was raised in. My childhood was very happy until it came time to date. I think that many people are o.k. with interracial friendships, but love or attraction they simply can't understand. My husband had never realized his family had problems with interracial relationships until they found out he was in one. His mother and two siblings out of eight were at our wedding. No other of his family or their friends came. His father would have nothing to do with it. The good news is that that was the worst it ever was. We now are very close to his family, and do things together often. Once his parents realized that if they forced him to choose between us, they'd miss out. Grandchildren also had a way of bridging our differences. It's unfortunate that it had to come down to such ugliness. There were so many concerns, by others, that life would be difficult for us. Rarely has race had anything to do with any difficulties we may have had. Race is rarely an issue within our home. Only outside do we have to think about hidden meanings, stares, and comments. We try not to let these things influence our thoughts and lives. I do, however, have concerns about the world my children will be seeking employment, and relationships in. I would have to say that that is what drew me to the Sims' story. I was interested in how the parents approached preparing their children for life between the color lines. I'd like to hear of your experiences and opinions since often times people feel uncomfortable discussing differences and more importantly what's similar between races.

32. My introduction
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 5:49 PM/EST

I grew up in Iowa in a working class, Irish Catholic family. The only person I knew of another color was the girl across the street who was bi-racial (black & white), being raised by her white grandparents. The minority population in the 1960's was around 3% (mainly black & a few Hispanic). Even though our city had no formal segregation, the unwritten rule was that blacks live in a particular area only. My parents were not racially prejudiced, but I believe that they always wanted me to marry a Catholic, preferably white.

In 1983 I moved to Orange County, California. Although there were more minorities, but again there seemed to be unwritten rules about segregation. The majority of the people in the neighborhood I lived, as well as those I worked with, were white.

I met my husband in 1993. He is from India. My family accepted him immediately. He is a wonderful man. Even though our backgrounds are very different, we've not had problems as a couple. We have, however, had problems with his family. His parents are conservative, devout Hindus (his father in particular). They were very upset when told of our engagement. In my husband's family, marriages are arranged based on religion, caste, horoscopes. The parents play a large role in whom their children marry. By my husband going against tradition, his father no longer speaks to him. His mother, fortunately, has softened and we speak with her often. She will be visiting us sometime next year.

We are looking forward to having children soon and I do think about what reactions they will get from the Indian community, as well as from whites. We now live in Los Angeles, where bi-racial / bi-cultural children are not unusual, but we will be moving back to Iowa in a few years.

I'm eager to hear other's experiences as mixed couples. As an Anglo/Indian couple, we are very unusual and I always feel a kinship with others who are dealing with similar issues.

33. To: Marj
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 5:49 PM/EST
maxwell

I want to say thank you for sharing your experiences. One thing that you said that I liked, was that the effects of racism are outside your home. I like that because, I think that is where it starts. It is always easier to point fingers at one another, than to realize how we may perpetuate the problem. If and when I have children, I would like to think that I would do the same thing in regards to empowering my children. I don't want to forget mentioning some of the benefits that I have had inter-racially dating. First off, I have been introduced to different customs, mindsets, ways of doing and thinking things. That has been refreshing to me personally. I have dated African American, Hawaiian, Filipino, Irish, Italian, Swedish. One thing that was common in all cases, was that we took the time to get to know one another, as opposed to pre-judging on stereotypes. I truly feel that in each relationship we learned more about what we had in common, as opposed to listening to others about what was different about us. I know we are going to probably hear that alot, but I think that it is important in a fundamental way.

34. To: Amaia and Maxwell
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 6:45 PM/EST
centrist

First let me say that these discussions on race are the first I have ever had in 55 years that have been so open and unpretextual. It is also great to be sitting here with the electricity off (battery power)due to the hurricane and still be able to communicate with people all over the country. In a very early episode of Star Trek there were two tribes on a distant planet, the name of which was withheld to protect the guilty - where those in the Northeast quadrant were black on the right half of their bodies and white on the left. Those from the Southwest quadrant were black on the left and white on the right. They battled and killed each other because of their differences until one of the weapons used to confuse the enemy was to use a mirror which caused them to see that they were just like their enemies and could not tell the difference. Prejudice exists in everyone of us in this discussion group. Certain things bring it out in different ways and at different times - it may be race or it may be socio ec status or intelligence or any number of other things. The more alike we are in physical appearance, the less the visceral reflex. Therefore, the reflexes between black and white are the most pronounced. The one stimulus that seems to bring prejudice out the most in both black and white is inter-racial dating and marriage. Socio ec status can allow blacks and whites to get along just fine if no dating is involved. The two groups can socialize just fine together as well as long as it is platonic. So...just as Maxwell suggests, there are a host of reasons not to get involved in an inter-racial relationship. However, I do not believe any of us here got involved in a relationship just to cross lines. I met someone who I fell in love with and I must now figure out how to function in a hostile world. Understanding the hostility will help in determining how to deal with it but it will not change it. Blame and $.50 will get you that cup of coffee.

35. Same-race hatred
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 9:00 PM/EST

In '57, my parents moved from urban newark nj to suburban cliffwood, trying to find a better life. They built a home in a black neighborhood. We were the 1st black family to move into the neighborhood in years. My dad attended community meetings because he felt that his taxes were not serving him nor the community: dirt roads, NO street lights, etc.. Blacks in the neighborhood didn't commend him. Some ridiculed us (my dad) for trying to better the community. We felt there was apathy in the community and SOMEONE had to speak out. As others listened and participated, our community received paved roads, street lights and mailboxes - and dad was given the recognition he deserved.

36. Introductions
Fri, Sep 17, 1999 - 11:45 AM/EST

Hi!

I am a Black professional divorcee with one small child who is engaged to be married to a professional Caucasian, never married, no children, male.

My experience has been quite similiar to Antonia's with respect to how friends and family have reacted. It has all been very positive. Co-workers have been different. Especially with white females. Several single white women have been outright vicious and hateful towards me. One even made the comment, "Why doesn't she leave the white men for us."

Our lives are pretty ordinary for the most part. What I have noticed is that the minority person in the relationship is very quick to distance himself/herself from their ethnicity. That disturbs me on a certain level because it emphasizes and supports notions of "White Superiority" and that is wrong. The whole notion of Black female beauty by Black people still revolves around "light skinned, long GOOD hair (argh!)" as being most desirable. I have heard with my own ears Black people and Asian people in Interracial Relationships say how their "children" are an improvement because they now have "Caucasian" blood running through their veins.

My fiancee and I are who we are. I am not trying to be "white" and he is not trying to be black.

Thoughts?

Taz