Topic #2. Can Black/White Realtionships Work, Longterm?
(Showing 36-50 of 63)

36. Thanks!
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 4:45 PM/EST

I've read everyones comments and found them to be very interesting. It's good to hear different perspectives on matters (though everyone seems to have a relatively optimistic view, which doesn't really allow for us to get into any heated dialogue).

I would like to make a few negative statements about blacks:

Like it or not, COLLECTIVELY blacks are in societies basement: economically, academically, morally... Blacks have the highest percentage rates of parental dissertion; contribute the least to the economic growth of the country and are notoriously substandard in terms of academic achievement. Blacks have the highest percentage rates of recidivism and incarceration.

That's just in the states:

In Africa, there's civil war in every social union governed by blacks (swaziland was the murder capital of the world) and there is no progressive technology being engineered by blacks.

In Liberia (A country established by American slaves) they shoot one another in the streets...

So much for black solidarity, eh?

I feel that collectively negroes are indeed inferior, or at best obsolete; and if they are not, then why are the behavioral patterns of blacks so regressive?

But my main point is:

Until blacks collectively prove their equality by exercising brainpower on par with asians, whites, arabs or any other variation of human, then blacks will not be (and probably do not deserve to be) treated as equals, and accepted as such.

Of course there are exceptions (I am, after all an educated black pursuing an advanced degree in robotic engineering). But I am the harshest critique of blacks because all the woes of negroes are the result of the collectives inability to stand intellectually with other races, or show comparable civility.

And that's why race mixing with blacks is frowned upon, because everyone (especially blacks) believes that negroes are inferior; and everything negroes do collectivley reaffirms that.

proteux@hotmail.com

37. Response to Proteus
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 8:54 PM/EST
nubianpeach

I'm probably the outlier in the group because noone seems to agree with me about these issues but in this case, what are u talkin about?

Yes, as a Black race we have a long way to go, but excuse me as I recall you are Black. If you don;t have pride in your own race, who will?

I was sitting in class the other day, and my teacher is lecturing about statistics that Blacks face in the healthcare system. I tried to envision myself in the shoes of the Whites in the class, probably thinking, DAMN, I'm glad I'm not Black. The news was devastating. The Black man is oppressed. He has the shortest life expectancy, and prone to homicide. Blacks have a high neonatal death rate, poor health care, poor infant mortality rate. When she read all of these things, I said to myself, it's time for Black people as a whole to seek out some snswers to these problems.

We have to be proactive and not reactive. Let me ask you this Proteus, what are u doing to help my race, since the way it seems you dont want to identify yourself as Black? Are you going out into the neighborhoods being a role model to these young Black males?

38. Continuing..
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 9:03 PM/EST
nubianpeach

Have you given back to help those in need since you seem to say that you are an educated Black male. Well, I consider myself a fairly reasonably educated African American female but I'm not going to criticize the Black community. Yes, I have a lot of hangups about some of the things that Blacks do especially when it comes to fauly decision making but you have to be willing to do something about it.

And you dont have to go to Africa to get statistics on the plight of Blacks shooting each other. Walk down the streets of America and you will the see the problems of drugs, handguns, and illiteracy. Take a step back and look at our scoiety. It is chaotic, yes, but you have to be willing to put your investment into the future.

Also, being educated doesn't make anyone a better of a person. For most Blacks, they will frown upon that person and think, he or she is uppity and detached from reality. Possessing degrees will not solve problems,it's how you use those degrees towards the goodwill of society.

39. response to proteus
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - /EST
littlekat

I don't know if you are just trying to stimulate debate or if you are just incredibly cynical, but put in simplest terms -- you've go some serious issues. Yes, it is true that as a group blacks face more social difficulties than any other racial group. But I don't think it is fair to make that comment without ackowledging that black people have also endured more oppression and exploitation throughout the course of history, than any other group. I'm not into making excuses, but I am into understanding the roots of problems -- I believe it should be the first step in solving them. As a result I have studied a lot of history. This dialogue isn't really the proper venue for a lengthy history lesson, but we can find that many of today's problems are rooted in the destructiveness of centuries of colonization, slavery, discrimination, and even more seemingly innocuous things such as the creation of an welfare system which did little to encourage a work ethic.

To solve the community's problems we must initiate changes at the personal (ie, attitudes and aspirations), institutional (ie business and government policies) and societal levels (ie changing attiudes about race.) Everybody has got to play a part.

40. Dear Lost Proteus
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 1:21 AM/EST
qiana

Such dangerous, unbalanced, obviously ignorant stereotypical rhetoric like that should addressed carefully. Whether you are indeed a misinformed black individual with no understanding of self, or merely someone fueling a debate, consider the following; Africa was originally inhabited by blacks of varying cultures that established a civilization far more sophisticated than white Europeans. As far back as 300 A.D. our ancestors endured the influx of European Christianity and Islam that trickled down the northeastern portion of the continent resulting in conflicts/dissension. Thereafter they endured French conquests in the Northwest, apartheid/white rule in the South, and forced slavery, displacement, and persecution. Furthermore, in the U.S. a century elapsed between the slaves being emancipated and blacks recieving civil rights under the law. That means from a displaced, enslaved population you have generations of people that lived with no means of opportunity or educational/economic growth. That situation was only rectified roughly 30 years ago, and we are still fighting. Any person making such critical and influential observations about a group of people would surely consider the environment and any outside contributing factors, right? I would beg to differ and say that we as black people have always risen above and flourished even if you wish to measure our status to whites. This is my initial response, however, I would really like to flood you with the accomplishments and contributions the majority of blacks have made but which get overshadowed by negative, slanted opinions such as yours. It is foreseeable to have blacks be an influential economic force and competitive in the technology frenzy, etc. However, we shouldn't be negative considering there has never existed the time/place long enough for blacks to simply exist, communicate, plan, teach, support, etc. without an onslaught of non-contributing forces with attitudes not unlike yours.

41. The Truth About Blacks...
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 4:02 PM/EST

I understand that some of the things I said are upsetting, but I'm just trying to "keep it real" folks...

I've spent a lot of time considering the condition of blacks in this nation and globally, there are certain undeniable patterns in negro behavior which I just cannot ignore.

I've heard a few excuses made for blacks but the truth is blacks have no one to blame but themselves.

If blacks are indeed the intellectual equals of the other races then how did we manage to become exclusively enslaved by them?

Why was Africa conquered and appropriated by European armies? The English fought with guns and the Zulu fought with spears...

If blacks are intellectually equal, then why do we live at the bottom of the socio-economic pyramid in EVERY nation we inhabit?

Why do blacks kill one another in the streets like animals, in EVERY nation we govern or inhabit?

BECAUSE WE CAN"T COMPETE INTELLECTUALLY.

In the life of each man there comes a time where he must stand and account for himself, and stop making excuses...

Blacks have been on this planet just as long, or longer than anyone else. No one said life is FAIR, but to transcend your circumstances is a testament to human ingenuity, and collectively we are a failed race, plain and simple.

42. Either I'm right or the world is a hallucination...
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 4:25 PM/EST

I understand anyone who says,"that's bullshit!" and thinks I'm ignorant, lost or misinformed...

Also whoever said I don't have any pride, well you're right. I don't see anything to be proud of...

But also understand that I am indeed black. I'm reticent to even SHARE these ideas because of that fact.

But here's the point which will bring all this "full-circle".

Blacks are more inclined to race-mixing because subconsciously we are trying to ASSIMILATE ourselves!

Especially in the states where there is greater pressure NOT to be black, and where the opportunity is more readily available to create hybrid offspring...

Ladies and gentlemen, there it is, I'm looking forward to your rebuttals and denouncements.

43. Curiosity made the cat fall in love (sorta)
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 6:37 PM/EST

To nubianpeach:

Yes, I must admit that part of me was curious about dating someone outside my race. BUT, it was the PERSON that I fell into. That FAR outweighed any curiosity.

Maybe curiosty, in that sense, can be a good thing? It might help people to be more open about all kinds of cultures (no, not yogurt). ;)

44. Why are you staring at us?
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 6:42 PM/EST

To bbbarbs:

You and I are on a level. I can really relate to A LOT of what you said.

As far as the stares go, yikes. They can be cold and penetrating. Many people will resent it or just plain not-get-it.

My hope is that society will evolve beyond such trivial issues.

Anywho, I wish you the best and all the happiness in the world!

45. Re: to everyone
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 6:46 PM/EST

To beachgirl:

Well said! If only there were more people like you in the world . . .

46. Responses
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 6:56 PM/EST
nubianpeach

Are u trying to imply that Blacks are genetically inferior to Whites?

You brought up very good points..

This forum was not designed to attack anyone personally. When people get into name-calling, it only creates problems. So I won't call you lost or mis-guided soul but only imply it.

I don't necessarily agree with all of what you have to say but people don't agree with me either.

Now, the subject at hand:

You quote: "and collectively we are a failed race, plain and simple." Again I'm going to ask you, what are U(Proteus) going to do about it?

You sit here and say that it is time to stop making excuses, what do you think you are doing? Laying back and criticizing is only aggravating the problem. Do you have all of these frustrations because you are not accepted by your own race group? When you mentioned earlier in another topic that others were insecure with their identities and made you feel excluded from hanging out with Blacks, I believe you have your own identity problems.

To answer your questions: (1) You are only perpetuating this problem by making Blacks feel inferior. If you have someone constantly telling you that you will amount to nothing and that you will never achieve, what do you think is going on in this Black person's mind? This is oppression. Blacks cannot only blame themselves. There are many other factors involved. Noone can answer that question of why we were enslaved as a race of people. I don't know why Massa' slept with my ggggrandmother, but regardless, we have to use slavery as a stepping stone and move on. We are the minority. Since you like statistics, Blacks are only 12% of the population. On the other hand, there are 75% White people in this society. It was easy for them to subjugate Blacks into slavery. They figured the same things you were saying: Blacks are ignorant, will amount to nothing, and are easy to control.

47. And it continues.....
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 7:01 PM/EST
nubianpeach

It is also important to add that Blacks should not use slavery as way to get over and use that as a crutch to say that's why they are not achieveing in this society.

As far as intellectually ability, I look up to my father who has a Ph.D, a brother that has a master's degree in BioMedical Engineering, Chemical Engineering, a master's degree in Business Administration, another brother who is a Certified Public Accountant, and a mother that is a nurse. As for myself, a broke grad student. :)

So, you're going to sit here and tell me that we are intellectually inferior. (Bullshit..) I know more Blacks with equal rank and many accomplishments. Some Blacks don't exercise their mental ability, but that doesn't mean that they cannot. Though we dont represent the typical Black family, that's not to say that others cannot do the same things.

Since you dont have this pride, let me ask you this...What do you have pride in? If not yourself, who?

48. I Can't Spell It Out Anymore Proteus...
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 8:30 PM/EST
qiana

--Why slavery?--

Slavery was aided by a minority population in Africa which was cultivated and financed by Europeans. The fact that black people didn't have the means to defend themselves from the slave trade doesn't constitute them as weak or inferior. Is a woman inferior in intellect when she is overpowered by an aggressor? Are the Jews inferior for being collectively devastated by the Germans? Are the American Indians inferior for not anticipating the measure of evil in the hearts and minds of settlers? Are the people in Tibet inferior for underestimating the precise political, economic, and military devices planted and aggravated by China? Were the people killed in the Oklahoma city bombing weak because they hadn't evolved with the physical capabilities or instints to thwart a plan of terror? The truth is that no human being has a God given ability to anticipate and defend against such evil. To this day, despite a human history plagued often by war and destruction, human beings have never been born with this posture to anticipate and defend against evil. Even today, nobody has the ability to anticipate an enemy pressing the button, and also lacking would be a successful measure of defense.

--Guns vs. spears--

Societies sporting the most sophisticated instruments of war but demonstrating a diminished capacity in social structure, family structure, moral structure, and reverence to our Creator should not be admired, nor modeled after. However, it will always be (and always has been) the people that continue to live as intended that will suffer from those who choose a path of destruction.

49. And to Finish
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 8:31 PM/EST
qiana

--Bottom of every socio-economic pyramid?--

Again, blacks have never been in an environment long enough without the intrusion of war-like parties disabling the means of community, communication, education, economic growth, etc. Slavery+displacement=break in community, language, culture, religion + failed "New South"+ a century of no means of education or economic growth+ no civil rights= 30 years ago. Since then we still have limited economic and educational opportunities despite other minorities who are embraced by our government and saturated with federal assistance to prosper with businesses in our communities. China enjoys the financial and economic benefits of preferred Nation status while our communities are targeted with drugs, alcohol, guns, profiling, poor schools and health care, and no base (loans) for economic growth. Why are Jews able to charge Germans with war crimes and have returned gold and artifacts when blacks were never awarded their 40 acres and a mule.

--Blacks kill?--

Statistics for white on white crime are staggering as well. History suggests that whites prefer to target indigionus people at a rate and intensity that ceases to be measured (or perhaps has never been revealed and put on the marquee as the emphasis of black crime).

--Can't compete?--

Relying predominatly on public education leaves us at the mercy of federal and state authorities that keep their heels on the throats of black communtities. Want a change, want to help by building up your community, well just step in line behind the Asian immigrant that has little education or language skills but will be heading to the bank with loan approval to start a robust business. If only Haitian immigrants are so welcome and encouraged.

--Blacks inclined--

Ask Jean Toomer or Tiger Woods how well your theory of assimilating works

50. To Proteus: Truth before judgement...
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 11:08 PM/EST
littlekat

I was particularly struck by the irony of this statement by Proteus. " No one said life is FAIR, but to transcend your circumstances is a testament to human ingenuity, and collectively we are a failed race, plain and simple."

In my studies of history I have been repeatedly impressed and inspired by the spirit and strength of the African American community. Faced with intense oppresion, disenfranchisement, and persecution, the black commmunity as a whole has continued to struggle and fight to succeed. I have to wonder, Proteus, have you ever studied history or sat and listened to the wisdom of those who fought for Civil Rights in the 60's. If the ability to transend circumstances is a testament to ingenuity, then this must certainly be a characteristic of the black race.

In the span of history how can you judge a people by 50 years of chaos as they stuggle to rebuild a continent ramsacked by invaders, or by 20 years characterized by a drug epidemic and its accompanying activities? You can't. You have to open your eyes to the entire picture, not choose to see only the evidence which supports your arguments. It is basic premise of logic and critical thought.

As and "educated" person, Proteus, I would think you would know that.