Topic #9. Does white American have mercy for the black population of this earth?
(Showing 16-30 of 55)

16. whining
Sun, Sep 19, 1999 - 5:58 PM/EST
davidt10

I believe that if blacks would stop all their whining about slavery and all the other things and start acting and thinking like other human beings then they might start to be treated like all other human beings. When all I hear every day is how white man put them into slavery and how I should feel sorry for them and all the other nonsense then it makes me want to puke. It seems funny that I don't feel this way toward any other race but blacks. Why???????

17. Do you _really_ want answers, David?
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 5:00 AM/EST
thaduke

Well, at least you're back instead of perpetrating a drive-by posting.

David, we ARE real people...real human beings. Why do you not believe this? We love our families, our kids, want a better future for all of us, we fight, curse, drink, work, worry...all of the stuff your folks do. Instead of asking, really truthfully asking for answers, you simple spit out old, hoary stereotypes and what you see on the TV about African Americans as being the absolute truth.

We're not the Borg, David. We're human beings that want what you want. Respect. Kindness. Fair treatment. Not the promise of happiness; just the ability to compete for it like everyone else. To be judged by what we INDIVIDUALLY do, or say: not by what you THINK we do or say.

Some might say I'm wasting my electrons with you David; maybe I am. I just feel that if you let go of the hate, and yes, the fear you have, you might actually like and respect us as human beings.

We don't NEED you to like us; that's for damn sure.

But it just might be a nice experience for all of us.

ThaDuke

18. WHY DO WE FEEL THIS WAY?
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 12:27 PM/EST
simsow

There is nothing wrong with whining; complaining, fussing, etc. We are all guilty! From children to the very old.

Some white men did put them in chains, but no one asked you personally to feel sorry for them. They simply want what you want, respect, the opportunities that you have; treated with dignity, respect, purchase homes, cars, get a college education and go where ever they choose without being afraid. Some people do not value what they have until they lose it.

19. David 10
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 12:56 PM/EST
link

I for one, I think you feel this way because you are in contact with the African-Americans almost daily. I don't know how many times any of us can tell you we don't care if you like us are not, just treat us how you want to be treated. You don't live with us. The other people that some whites call black because of skin color are oddities to you and an adventure for you to explore. If you travel to those countries just for a few days, that doesn't mean you really know the people. They could really hate whites and you white people would never know it by the way they welcome you into their countries. I really don't understand how white people think they can go to a country that has people of dark skin color and call themselves respectful, when whites over here can't be kind and fair to the dark people over here. I think some people just like feeling superior.

20. Stupid question
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 5:55 PM/EST
ottercat

...but a good place to ask it. Can anyone give me a good definition of "white"? I thought I knew, but I'm not so sure now. link and david10 seem to have such different definitions. Can someone tell me exactly what "white" is?

21. A Cautious Gambit
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 8:13 PM/EST

Some opportunistic black "leaders" do a lot

of fan-flaming about the past. It seems most of the black participants in these posts don't bite

on that line of argument.

I think most white people are like me. They recognize the terrible wrongs; both past and present. But they are aware (I am 61) of changes

that have taken place in the law, in business,

and in the minds and hearts of many.

When some blacks seem transfixed by the past, when

they seem unable or unwilling to see the whole

variety of black experience, then some white

people become exasperated. They say to themselves,

"These people are not seeing things clearly and

what is more, they are being downright nasty about

it."

American blacks who move to other nations of black

populations seem (in my limited experience) to find these nations fall short. As I said in another post, you won't see Carlton or Len back in

Nigeria anytime soon (but you will see doctors and

missionaries both black and white doing service

there).

Almost every day of my life I draw a deep breath

and thank my lucky stars that I am not driving

a herd of sheep in a high Mongolian pasture or

ducking a machete in Burundi - or dodging a sniper

in Yougoslavia.

22. A little clarification...
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 9:36 PM/EST
thaduke

Smitty;

When you speak of "black leaders" you make one of the fundamental mistakes that are made when non-black peoples speak of us: that we are the Borg, led by one consciousness, one thought, one creed. The so-called "leaders" only speak for those that follow them. I don't know your political leanings, but it's like all white Americans are lead by David Duke or Pat Buchanon. Silly, ain't it? But that is what is done by non-blacks every day: they assume that since s/he is black, we automatically tow "the party line".

----more------

23. Mistake Two...
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 9:40 PM/EST
thaduke

Mistake two: mistaking cosmetic change for a sea change. Yes. We're not having fire hoses turned on us, we can vote, we can do a helluva lot of things that we could not do even twenty years ago. Should we hit our knees thanking every non-black person for allowing us this!? HELL NO!!! This is what EVERY American is entitled to...it's not some largesse that has been bestowed upon us like little kids given a Big Wheel for Christmas! Today, at the cusp of the third millennium after the birth of Christ, I STILL hear about black people subjected to everything from "Driving while Black" police stops, to being referred to as "Gorillas in the Mist" to being taken for a ride...on the back of a pickup...by a chain. I've got people objecting to helping minorities (that includes white women) get training and opportunities in underrepresented fields, becase of ignorance and fear of a rapidly changing US. This in spite of the unemployment rate for non-white adults being two to three times higher than the general rate. So, yes...things have gotten better...I do not deny it...but the really heinous exceptions to this rule are still there, or getting worse.

I know you can't legislate what is in a person's heart. But now we have people believing, still, in 1999, that we don't have the right to exist as we wish, that we're not "real human beings" (as our buddy DavidT10 would have us believe), and other such diminutives.

24. Mistake #3
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 9:55 PM/EST
thaduke

(With apologies to Culture Club...)

Ah yes. The "we're transfixed with the past" argument.

Let's suppose that you're a normal, hardworking, reasonable person. However, you're male in a certain country. In the nation, there is a history of females being dominant, and treating you as property, taking away your rights, etc. A century or so have passed. Treatment of you by women is much improved, but some of the old thinking is very much evident by your social treatment, condition, and by behaviors still cropping up from the past. When you walk down the street, you can be subjected to one of the few outward behaviors that is still practiced. You may be whacked in the back of your skull with a stick at any time by a woman who possesses the old feelings. No one either recognizes this, or cares. You complain to the authorities, telling them there is a law against this. They either don't care, or think you're ungrateful for the kindness you've been shown for the past 100 years of not owning, torturing, or otherwise humiliating you.

It won't take long for you to start doing a "Crazy Ivan" every five seconds, checking your six for a madwoman with a stick. Even if you live in a reasonably progressive area, you can bet that there are still some of the "old guard" living there who don't like you, and will take a lick at you given the opportunity.

Can’t you see how someone would be cautious, and concentrating "on the past" in such an instance? We _know_ that most white people, when given the chance, and humane and good. However, the ones that either (a) blatantly whack us, or (b) by unexplored attitudes take little swings at us, maybe without knowing it are making life damn hard. Sure, we could ignore the past…but concussions are damn hard to recover from…

Tha’ Duke

25. Mistake Four
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 10:01 PM/EST
thaduke

"America: Love it or Leave It"...

This may not be what you wanted to convey, Smitty...but this is how it comes off. We should be grateful that we live in a land of possibilities, yes...but not grateful to any man for it. To God, yes: but not to some who thinks we should just shut up and be grateful for what we have been given. It doesn't work that way.

Whether Carlton and company know what they've got is inconsequential: whether we are a nation that lives up to its pledge of allegiance is. "ONE NATION...INDIVISIBLE...LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL."

Justice, smitty: it's not just for breakfast anymore...

Posted in respect, friendship and learning:

Tha' Duke

26. To ThaDuke
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 11:15 PM/EST
link

Thank you for everything you just stated, I agree whole-heartedly. I would like to ask the question, why do we in America think that our lives are so much better or on a higher plateau than any other culture? Just because they have wars and people are starving. Do we think that they caused these hardships by themselves? "I never wish for things unseen, only when it is brought to my attention do I covet". Has the US had wars and depression? Our lives are simply more complicated by materializm, as theirs soon will be if not careful. Hypothetically, if someone said to me, "Go back to Africa", my reply would be, "Sure, just give me a couple of million to get set up and I'll pay my house off here and I'm gone." I would go to Ghana, they are trying to offer dual citizenship to the African Americans. Other countries like Isreal do it, why not us?????? Waving my hands again.

27. Old Cautious Smitty Again
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 11:46 AM/EST

Well, duke, we are down to talking about "degrees" of things and we may not be able to slice and dice thin enough to satisfy either of us.

No, all or even most blacks (and as I said, certainly not those on this message board) do not go along with the Sharpton-esque type. BUT, if you fall with the young lady in Nigeria and fail to break openly with that Al (for the sake of unity?) then you allow the question to remain open.

There HAS been a sea change, duke, and (I am sure you will agree) when some black people remain sitting at the kitchen table clipping out stories about DWB and wrongful treatment rather than grabbing the brass ring of education or jobs that is out there, then they are doing themselves no good.

And, please, you are fully entitled to a real large dose of "nobody knows like WE know" because that is both heritage and reality. But as slavery recedes, as Jim Crow recedes, as job discrimination gets less-oppressive, then black people must come along with the program - or they will find themselves like the Serbs; a deep, dark, miserable people re-fighting battles centuries old and unable to deliver their children to a better life. Fortunately, these posts seem to suggest that many blacks are doing what's in their self interest.

And, hey, I don't apologize for suggesting that American blacks could be worse off. It's true.

Let me hear from you -

28. Questions unanswered
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 3:37 PM/EST
ottercat

Guess nobody wants to define "white" for me. Too easy or too hard? Try it this way, then. What's "black"? One African grandfather? One African great-grandfather? The descendants of Sally Hemming, who (as I understand) was 3/4 "white" though she spent her life as a black woman, are considered the "black" descendants of Thomas Jefferson today. Personally, I think they look just like the "white" descendants.

Now consider: The oldest "human" remains have been discovered in Africa, which means the human race started there,which means we all have African ancestors. Are we then all black?

Okay, it's trivial, it's extreme. My point is that they're only labels. We are however we choose to be, the persona we live. Want to be angry? The world will receive you with anger. Want to be afraid? It can be arranged.Want to be open and joyous, loving life and everything in it? You can do that too.

We have people on this site who want us to be angry,hurtful bullies. See it that way if you like. I see you as children who were hurt who grew into hurting adults. I wish I could help.

Okay, hit me.

29. Caution---no crossing zone in America, Smitty
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 9:32 PM/EST
thaduke

Oh Smitty...

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough.

You're just displaying a kinder, gentler variation of David's "if blacks would just act like real human beings" shtick. What some non-blacks fail to realize is that no matter how many degrees I get, no matter how many nice cars I drive, no matter how many suits I wear, how well I speak standard English, or what job I have, I will be just another black boy to them. Reminds me of a very sad joke: Q: What do you call a black man who finds the cure for cancer, makes $10 million a year, and wins the Nobel Peace Prize? A: A Nigger.

That's what we're up against. No matter if we put down the scissors now (as if we don't have a right to be aware of these things), and "joined the world" of opportunities you crow about, we'll still be "niggers"...do you get it yet? I can come along with the program...hell, I can PROGRAM the damn program, and it will never make a dime's worth of difference with a good hunk of the non-black population of this nation.

And do you know what's worst, Smitty. To have your concerns and real situations just dismissed. Do we want the pity of non-black folks? Hell no. Just to be judged by our actions and character, not assigned a worth by our skin color, and certainly not to be told basically, "it's all in your head", or "mind over matter".

-----more------

30. Just so you know, Smitty...
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 9:33 PM/EST
thaduke

I'm taking this opportunity in this forum to educate and help you at least think about what goes on in the black community, as I see it. I don't think you're a horrible person. I've gotta commend you for at least going and staying outside of your comfort zone, if just for a little while, and expressing what's on your mind, Smitty. Don't run off with your tail between your legs like some others here: we'll never get this thing worked out that way.

BTW: (a) At first eyeball, can you tell the difference between a Serb and a Kosovar Albanian? Didn't think so, and (b) If you don't do what's in your or your family's self interest, there is something very wrong. It just so happens that fair treatment, and not being burdened down with stereotypes is in my best interest. Hope there's not a problem with that.

Tha' Duke